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Who the €#%$ are Civil Enforcement Ltd

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Who the €#%$ are Civil Enforcement Ltd Empty Who the €#%$ are Civil Enforcement Ltd

Post  Snowcat Mon Apr 30 2012, 14:55

Got the threatof a court summons off this company today. It all started 2 months ago when I got a letter through from them asking for £150 (or £75 if settled within 14 days) for parking for over 2 hours in a carpark at Decathlon Sports in Stockport. I didn't dispute I had been in the car park (for about 15 minutes) and as there is no way to contact this company I went back to the shop giving them the details to sort it out which they promised to do.

Heard nothing else from it so presumed it was sorted until I got a phone call from my less than happy boss to say they'd received this summons at work. Apparently they buy the details of vehicles off the DVLA, hence why work got the paperwork but get this they are now asking for £425.

Do we think this is a scam??
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Post  SteveCat Mon Apr 30 2012, 15:07

Scam of sorts, more a total rip off - but is serious.

There are private parking companies which hit with these outrageous rates. They take people to court and in many cases they win :(

Was something on TV about it a week or two ago, think with Dom Littlewood - even with the power of the media and their lawyers these companies blatantly do their own thing.

Sorry not been much help .. will see if I can find the program.
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Post  Snowcat Mon Apr 30 2012, 15:15

Cheers Steve, bear in mind I can prove I wasn't there and had every intention of telling them to take a running jump. Problem is the papers are addressed to the company so my boss is paranoid about them applying a CCJ on the business so NOW wants it sorting out!!
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Post  SteveCat Mon Apr 30 2012, 15:20

Not sure if this info from Watchdog will help [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] Oh I'm glad they don't agree with what I said about having success in court. - good luck

It is also important to note that, as things currently stand, the driver of the vehicle is the only person who can enter into a contract with the landowner. Therefore if you were not the person driving you may wish to inform the parking company of this straight away. Just because you are the registered keeper of the car, you are under no legal obligation to provide the parking operator with any further information, as you would be with the police. In particular you do not have to identify the driver or supply his or her name and address.

Indeed if you are certain that you have not parked in contravention of the rules of the car park, you do not have to contact the parking company if you do not wish to do so as the obligation is on the parking company to prove its case. However you should let them know that you contest the notice as if not, you can expect a series of letters from the company itself, debt collectors and solicitors, all warning of court action. However, the reality is that extremely few cases ever reach court because of the difficulties the private company has in proving its case. Consequently, the letters usually stop. Even if a case does reach court, the company may have trouble convincing a judge that the charge is fair.
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Post  Rosco Mon Apr 30 2012, 15:33

Mmmm.

If it was direct to you or private registered keeper then I'd say ignore or write them as per link possibly offer to pay the additional pounds and pence it would have cost to stay the extra (or is that an admission of guilt?!? --- maybe not try that one then)

If it is a company car then you probably need your company to play hardball.

As I see it......

Option 1 : pay it and it is done and dusted (you are £4xx down)
Option 2 : research it to death and produce your findings to boss and or back to option 1 or 3
Option 3 : take some independent legal advice at a cost of ??? Or maybe citizens advice could help for free?

Good luck whatever you choose to do.

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Post  ellie Mon Apr 30 2012, 15:37

I had a similar letter that included a photo, from a firm in Manchester, luckily I'd traded the car in several months before at a garage and had proof. I'd even sent off the log book thingey and they'd obtained the ticket in between.

Good luck sorting it out!

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Post  Snowcat Mon Apr 30 2012, 16:27

I've explained this to my company but they won't listen. He's said at the end of the day only I drive that vehicle therefore I am responsible for whatever goes on in it. I wouldn't hesitate to pay a genuine parking ticket or speeding fine for instance but I know this is a scam and want to dig my heals in. My boss however wants me to write to them advising them that the company is not liable and that I was the driver. I think this is giving them the upper hand giving them 'a person' to pursue and my boss is hanging me out to dry to save his companies "spotless" reputation. He ain't listening to reason so it looks like I'm stuck with this even though I know I've not done anything wrong.

The fact that they are saying I owe £425 but appreciate its a lot of money and they are prepared to accept partial settlement of £75 tells me they know they're struggling for a leg to stand on!!

On top of the fact that my garden wall being blown down in the gales yesterday and my wife just phoning to tell me someone has run into the back of her (she's okay!!) I'm having a great start to the week!!
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Post  Wooster Mon Apr 30 2012, 18:15

Been there, done that: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (look familiar?)

Just a pity it's a company car since they generally pay up and then dock you for the privilege of paying these rip-off bastards.
That fine was at a site where one of our engineers (in a company van) also got a fine. (I drive my own car and still have their last 'final' demand lying in a drawer somewhere)
iirc he managed to get off with it since we were there on legitimate business and the proprietor of premises was meant to advise that the vehicles were on site...avoiding the issuing of a ticket.

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Post  ellie Mon Apr 30 2012, 18:16

I don't blame your boss tbh, some companies take disciplinary action too.

Hope your day improves!
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Post  Lonterra Mon Apr 30 2012, 18:24

Snowcat wrote:Problem is the papers are addressed to the company so my boss is paranoid about them applying a CCJ on the business so NOW wants it sorting out!!

YES - Get the company to write to them saying they are not liable.

NO - Do NOT tell them you were the driver....! If you have already admitted to the company (in writing) that you were the driver, then you'll have to suck it up and pay the fine.

Otherwise, you are under no obligation to identify the driver. This is a private company. Their letter is not a S.172 request from the police or other authorised agency.


To get a CCJ, they have to go to court.

To go to court, they have to prove who was the driver of the vehicle, as that is the person the contract was entered into with.

Unless they can do this, they do not have a leg to stand on.


Also, to obtain a CCJ, a person first has to default on a legitimate debt. Which this isn't.

As it's a Civil matter, they can only claim for actual losses (£). What are the actual losses (£) to them for a free car park?

You'll still probably get a couple more letters saying they might take you to court and if they find in their favour you could possibly get a CCJ. The likelihood of them actually going to court is zero, as they know they don't have any case.


Lots of advice out there on the Internet. Try Pepipoo.com

Print off the advice, and give it to your boss.

File any further correspondence in the cylindrical filing device. And repeat until they get bored......

If you really want to engage with them, an example of a letter for your company to send is below. However, I would strongly recommend just ignoring it.

To whom it may concern
[Add their title and address, Miss Jones}

I am in receipt of your letter dated [insert the date Miss Jones] alleging that a vehicle registered to this company overstayed an arbitrary duration in a vehicle park attached to one of your stores.

As I am sure you will be aware, it is the driver of the vehicle with whom any contract to park was made, not the Registered Keeper. You will also be aware that the terms of any such contract must be set out in such a manner as to be obvious to anyone with whom you wished to make the contract. These terms must comply with all applicable contract law, such as the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.

Should you wish to pursue this claim, please supply evidence that the person parking the vehicle you allege to have overstayed the set duration would have had the opportunity to read the contract terms. Such evidence must be, as a minimum:
• a detailed route and timings of the vehicle's travel into and through the vehicle park;
• a detailed route of the driver's passage out of the vehicle and into the store - this and the evidence listed immediately above are to show that the driver had reasonable opportunity to see and read the contract terms;
• photographs of all relevant signage in situ in locus in quo at the time of the alleged overstaying so as to show that the signs were actually readable;
• an accurately-drawn, scaled, map showing the location of each sign and indicating which you believe the driver would have had the easy opportunity to read (the routes of the vehicle and driver should be superimposed upon the map);
• details of the weather conditions at the time, in particular the visibility (all to be confirmed by the Meteorological Office);
• sufficient details of the driver with whom you claim to have made a contract to enable their unique identification;
• a detailed description of the processes followed to record and analyse the evidence of the alleged overstaying; and
• a notarised statement from a senior manager at the store to the effect that your recording and analytical systems were working normally at the time of the alleged overstaying.
Without the above, I cannot entertain your claim and any further demands for payment will be considered harassment and will be reported to the police with a view to your criminal prosecution under s1 of the Malicious Communications Act 1998, s85 of the Postal Services Act 2000, s127 of the Communications Act 2003, and/or s2 of the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 - this last with a view to the court issuing a Restraining Order against you. Additionally, civil action will be taken against you personally and your employer to cease and desist and for the recovery of all costs, together with a substantial payment in compensation for the mental pain and suffering caused.

I expect your reply by return, either providing the evidence requested above or indicating simply your termination of this correspondence.

[Just PP it Miss Jones ... and are we still on for some nookie tonight?]






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Post  Snowcat Mon Apr 30 2012, 18:30

Wooster wrote:Been there, done that: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] (look familiar?)

Just a pity it's a company car since they generally pay up and then dock you for the privilege of paying these rip-off bastards.
That fine was at a site where one of our engineers (in a company van) also got a fine. (I drive my own car and still have their last 'final' demand lying in a drawer somewhere)
iirc he managed to get off with it since we were there on legitimate business and the proprietor of premises was meant to advise that the vehicles were on site...avoiding the issuing of a ticket.


Very familiar, I wouldn't mind but they don't even look official!!

I don't blame the boss man for wanting to protect his company but he won't listen to reason and ignore the obvious scam.

I've sent the letter hopefully hanging myself and absolving the company of any blame but I'm not paying it without one hell of a fight.

£425 to park for 15 minutes, my arse!!
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Post  weasley Mon Apr 30 2012, 20:06

The usual advice for these is to ignore them, and the increasingly threatening follow-up letters that will follow. As said they can't issue a CCJ without a judge's ruling in court, and no parking company will take it to court because there's a chance the judge will rule against them, setting precedent for every future case to use as defence.

In this case of course you have your company to deal with, but I'd still be tempted to tell them that if they pay it is not on your behalf as you contest the penalty. If you can get them out of the loop then you should be all set to ignore them at will.
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Post  Wooster Mon Apr 30 2012, 20:28

weasley wrote:... and no parking company will take it to court because there's a chance the judge will rule against them, setting precedent for every future case to use as defence.

That's what happened in Scotland with clamping iirc.
Judge regarded it as nothing more than modern highway robbery and ruled it illegal.
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Post  Snowcat Mon Apr 30 2012, 22:23

Well the letter went off so they've got the driver and its me against them!! Let the carnival begin Wink
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Post  Roll The Bones Tue May 01 2012, 19:16

Go along with Lonterra on this. Luckily I've never had a fine or charge and I believe this is a charge.

Work colleague was in a similar situation with his private car. He ignored them and in time they went away. He also disputed one with our local authority and that went away also.

They may well sell this on to a debt collection agency, so more official (threatening) letters.

Like most bullies they will pick on easy targets and if you stand-up they will easily get £75 from elsewhere.

Keep us informed, good luck. Thumb
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