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marker system

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MevsyD
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Post  mechy69 Sun Sep 04 2011, 19:10

First topic message reminder :

Well as all who attended the TOL will know we had a slight hiccup with the marker system on route, not once but twice!!!

when we finally herded everyone together at the services, some polite people were taking the p**s as i came in .Now this triggered a slight teddy out the pram moment from myself, to which i would like to appologise for, not really how i wanted to handle it , but pour the fuel light the blue touch paper and stand well back.

None of it was directed at any people other than those who failed 3 times to mark, and i sincerely hope i didnt offend any others in my unproffesional rant.

Other factors were also involved in me not being at my best so i should have known better. Had it happened after lunch i would have known which routes as thats what we had concentrated on the weekend before!!!

The 2 to mark a junction when in a large group worked very well indeed, although i think some of my rant got through as marking corners became the norm shortly after!!

Hope you all had a good time and i didnt put anyone off

Pete
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Post  mechy69 Mon Sep 05 2011, 21:03

i dare them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post  Wooster Mon Sep 05 2011, 21:30

SteveCat wrote:Anyone who has been Tail-end-Charlie / back marker and seen the ride unravel in front of them can empathise.

The marker system, when it works is fantastic, however it can implode in a most spectacular fashion when it goes wrong.

QFT. Wink

It can also lead to extreme boredom imho.
Pegging back to accommodate the slowest in the group is wise when climbing mountains in winter, but on a ride out it's a pain.

I suppose it's right up the Harley riders street, where the professional classes like to hang together to show off their studded leather accoutrements and subject communities to their farttastic machinery green smile , but it ain't great on performance bikes.
On ride-outs where they used junction marking I felt like I was a kid on a school trip to the zoo (minus the warm banana sandwiches). Laughing

It isn't hard to team riders up with someone who knows the route and are prepared to shepherd people to the next waypoint, and saves all that fannying around and holding everyone back.
Those who want to crack on, can, and they know that they don't have long to wait for those others following, since ther is someone in the splinter group who knows the way.

In my last life (once removed from the IT stuff now) I was an outdoor instructor (Skiing, Hillwalking/Climbing (winter&summer), Kayaking, Windsurfing etc..).

If you have a group of individuals who have achieved different skill levels, you are onto a hiding for nothing if they're all held back or pushed forward.
..Those who lack confidence feel under pressure to keep up (with obvious consequences), and those who are confident feel held back.

It isn't a big ask of anyone to be responsible for guiding others for part of the route and join another group later if they wish to do so, handing the reigns over to another. (tbh I've been on ride outs with some absolute screamers and I was glad of the opportunity to relax with the more relaxed groups (for the sake of my nerves in the sight of some of the moves they'd pull)

Anyhoo.
Point is, don't try to funnel people into a particular route (like a guided tour of a museum), let them split up and follow someone who knows where everyone is (hoping to be) going. green smile

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Post  ellie Mon Sep 05 2011, 21:38

SteveCat wrote:
mechy69 wrote:That would be an honour

I must warn you though, just between you and me, there's one or two that like to stray - best be on the lookout :rite: Very Happy



Me? Stray? I'm a good girl me :-) I wouldnt DARE get lost twice, I'd be tar'd, feathered, hung, drawn, quartered and wrist slapped for good measure!!
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Post  Wooster Mon Sep 05 2011, 21:50

When was the last time you couldn't find your own way home?

Be honest. Smile


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Post  ellie Mon Sep 05 2011, 22:03

I get lost frequently, but that's another story!!

IMHO our rideouts are Bang Tidy and work well just the way they are. For me the fun is riding together with great mates around superb roads with some great scenery.

I think it's safer the way we use the marking system and I've been on rideouts that haven't used it and it's utter chaos.

For me it's also a mixture of lovely scenery, a variety of roads and then some parts that are a bit quicker and if anyone wants to go play, they can.

I'm not the fastest rider but I'm also not the slowest and every rideout I've been on has suited me pace wise.


If it ain't broke, don't fix it green smile
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Post  Radar Mon Sep 05 2011, 22:30

The marker system is the best overall I have used on larger ride out

I totlly agree with Ellies comments. I have enjoyed all three ride-outs I hav attended (BC1-3) and hope to attend some of the others next year
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Post  SteveCat Mon Sep 05 2011, 23:30

ellie wrote: I wouldnt DARE get lost twice, I'd be tar'd, feathered, hung, drawn, quartered and wrist slapped for good measure!!

or earn a few numpty points Laughing

Wooster wrote:Pegging back to accommodate the slowest in the group ...

In larger rides this can be a problem. The ones we have are of manageable size and the system works well the vast majority of the time and I agree it's good for us and not be changed.

Sometimes a slower rider (or someone who just wants to take it easy) may offer to ride tail end thinking it's OK back there for a bimble. My view on this, with all due respect is, the T.E.C. ought to be one of the 'better' riders - a situation may arise where progressive riding may be required.
Groups handle the marker/drop off system differently .. there could be a 'second man' riding behind the lead rider pointing out the places to mark, taking this responsibility away from the leader. This person can also help set the pace of the ride. It sounds like this weekend they went to double markers, also works very well. Having two tail enders/sweepers can be beneficial too. No one method is best for all situations.

When everything is going well the bike at the back is having a nice easy time, however that can quickly change and person at the back can be faced with all sorts of problems to sort out

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Post  Wooster Tue Sep 06 2011, 00:54

and I agree it's good for us and not be changed

Who said egotism is dead?
And who are you agreeing with? (yourself?)

I used to be a member of RoSPA and went on some rides with AIM.
Both organisations have much to offer, but they're a right pipe & slipper brigade at times.
I'm not going to make broad assumptions, but both groups seemed (Ek and Glasgow) to spend more time mired in internal bickering than they did in conducting actual development for their members.



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Post  Rosco Tue Sep 06 2011, 02:59

Wooster wrote:
It can also lead to extreme boredom imho.

Pegging back to accommodate the slowest in the group is wise when climbing mountains in winter, but on a ride out it's a pain.

It isn't hard to team riders up with someone who knows the route and are prepared to shepherd people to the next waypoint, and saves all that fannying around and holding everyone back.
Those who want to crack on, can, and they know that they don't have long to wait for those others following, since ther is someone in the splinter group who knows the way.

If you have a group of individuals who have achieved different skill levels, you are onto a hiding for nothing if they're all held back or pushed forward.
..Those who lack confidence feel under pressure to keep up (with obvious consequences), and those who are confident feel held back.

It isn't a big ask of anyone to be responsible for guiding others for part of the route and join another group later if they wish to do so, handing the reigns over to another. (tbh I've been on ride outs with some absolute screamers and I was glad of the opportunity to relax with the more relaxed groups (for the sake of my nerves in the sight of some of the moves they'd pull)

Anyhoo.
Point is, don't try to funnel people into a particular route (like a guided tour of a museum), let them split up and follow someone who knows where everyone is (hoping to be) going. green smile


I agree that if folks feel under pressure to 'catch up' then folks can start riding beyond their ability and that goes for anyone and everyone. This can easily happen to a group of identical riders when some at the front are able to make overtakes between bends, traffic, traffic lights, road works or whatever and others aren't able to because of bends, traffic, traffic lights, road works or whatever. The group can then be easily split by minutes and miles. I would say the best way to deal with this is don't do anything different and ride your own ride to your own ability.

It is boring waiting and if you are waiting on your own for longer than you think you should then your mind wanders to what if's. If you leave the junction you are marking to go back (or forward) then that junction is no longer marked and anyone trying to find their way back or forwards to you can get lost too.

The first time (to my knowledge) that we've used two (or more) people to mark was at Big Mac and it worked perfectly. We did have a big group and I knew we had a wide range of average speeds, we could be widely spread and mobile phone coverage could be very hit and miss. I also knew that I would be taking pictures and didn't want to get lost at the back!

It might sound like overkill but it does allow for one of the markers to head back if they think they have waited longer than they should have whilst the other can wait there until someone appears from somewhere. It also allows for one of the markers to go after any stray bikers that missed the junction (let's hope he or she was part of the group to start with!!!!!)

Everyone should ride to their own ability and enjoyment and respect their own safety and space & that of others and that is ALWAYS explained to everyone new on the ride-outs and reminded to the everyone too.

We tried two groups at Wee Mac this year and from the feedback I got it went fairly well. We all started together and then split after our first stop. Making arrangements to meet at certain places at certain times is almost always never going to go to plan though.....and lunch wasn't quite together. It also means that folks need to decide which group to fit into. TBH - I'm not sure whether having one big group or smaller groups is better. I guess each has their pro's and con's.

IMHO - The riders that are faster and want to ride faster should mark junctions (or stop and take pictures [my guilty pleasure] )and make their way safely back to the front. Slower riders and folks who want to be riding slower should only mark junctions if required and until they can be replaced. That way the slower riders and those that want to be going slower can always be on the move going at the pace they want to and those that want to ride faster get to.......with the odd marking duty to keep their average speed down closer to that of the slower riders. Ergo, everyone is happy...........I think Very Happy

Cheers
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Post  Rosco Tue Sep 06 2011, 03:25

Wooster wrote:
On ride-outs where they used junction marking I felt like I was a kid on a school trip to the zoo (minus the warm banana sandwiches). Laughing
You won't know what you're missing until you try one of our rideouts Wooster ....... I'll bring some banana sandwiches for you if that helps. p.s You'll find all the wild animals in the pub afterwards........and most of them are bananas.

Wooster wrote:
Point is, don't try to funnel people into a particular route (like a guided tour of a museum), let them split up and follow someone who knows where everyone is (hoping to be) going. green smile
If the organisers put so much time and effort into picking routes, fuel stops, picture stops, coffee stops they don't want folks straying away. Worst case scenario is that they might find better roads and blab to everyone else Embarassed
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Post  bignige Tue Sep 06 2011, 07:55

Pete, to me your bit of a shout was not out of order & was well justified, The marker system can fail but always through human error, sometimes other bikes that get amonst the pack lead folks astray or its not possible to lay a marker in the most visable place because of safety BUT for the system to fail Twice in 25 miles because markers leave thier station before the sweeper arives is plain silly & shouldn't happen. old
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Post  Guest Tue Sep 06 2011, 10:37

bignige wrote:Pete, to me your bit of a shout was not out of order & was well justified, The marker system can fail but always through human error, sometimes other bikes that get amonst the pack lead folks astray or its not possible to lay a marker in the most visable place because of safety BUT for the system to fail Twice in 25 miles because markers leave thier station before the sweeper arives is plain silly & shouldn't happen. old

I left my position far too early - I confessed to that at the time , but I never really explained why I didn't wait long enough , earlier we were all expecting Pete to be the back marker then we were told that Tel was the back marker , but then along the way we passed Pete and Ross -... stationery by the side of the road taking pictures , Pete had his orange vest on still ,you've gotta to admitt that's a bit cofusing see the back marker already ahead of you..... so I wasn't sure if I was waiting for Tel or Pete . When I marked the roundabout the group passed and I failed to notice if if Tel passed or not (he/they obviously didn't) I waited for what seemed an age and noone else arrived so I left , I haven't had a problem with the marker system before so I think to say "is plain silly & shouldn't happen" is a bit simplistic and mistakes are made for a reason . Having said all that we all had a great time and everyone got back safely so that's the main thing deal
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Post  ellie Tue Sep 06 2011, 10:49

you've gotta to admitt that's a bit confusing



But then you didnt quite grasp the dice game either did you John [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]





But I didnt budge from my marking spot until the back marker was well and truly at the same spot. Once bitten, twice shy Very Happy



Maybe this written on a bib would be better for Tail End Charlie next time?



[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]



and just for you Pete, Im gonna lend you mine....



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Last edited by ellie on Tue Sep 06 2011, 10:50; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Coz I is Inept :-))
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Post  mechy69 Tue Sep 06 2011, 19:12

Ellie, you were a sight for sore eyes when we came across you at that junction, you HADNT moved and thankyou, John--- how the f**k could i have been a back marker after the first cock up if i was still f*****g lost, we got ahead of you for that reason, having admitted you were at least supposed to wait for Tel you then said "i dont know if he came along or not " and left your post. Now for one the back marker doesnt ride past you when he comes along , waits for you to set off and FOLLOWS you, there are the facts, i am sorry they seem to hard to follow but bear in mind less than 20 mins earlier you were told quite sternly NOT to leave your post i can only assume english is a bit hard eh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, 4 people then having to run around and find where they were , this brings me back to Ellie ,who sat there and waited no matter what!!!!!!!!, thankyou again

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Post  MevsyD Tue Sep 06 2011, 19:16

Gutted I missed this one!
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Post  mechy69 Tue Sep 06 2011, 19:18

bet you are, if i ever back mark again and someone cocks up i will do to them what i did to someone who said i couldnt have the last Rolo

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Post  MevsyD Tue Sep 06 2011, 19:21

Lol! I backmarked the last one remember? I feel your pain!
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Post  Guest Tue Sep 06 2011, 19:39

Pete , I've given you my acccount , I already apologised on the day for my cock up and I apologise again , but no need for the effin and blinding , it was funny on the day , but not now .Like I said every one enjoyed themselves , no one was hurt , everyone got back home safely and that's the main thing.
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Post  greencat Tue Sep 06 2011, 20:08

John,

You have confessed. Three holy Mary's and a be-jezus and you are pardoned. Very Happy After the weekend's antics I might need a marker system for the confessional!

I'm sending Pete on a retreat until he's calmed down. He might be away a while! I can assure you he does see the funny side too. He just has some problems showing it Shocked

As has been said before if it all went smoothly what would we talk about in the pub? That 200lb hairy mammoth in the corner of the room?!
Ahh, clever, now I see what you were up to. Wink It was all a diversion.... green smile

Chris

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Post  mechy69 Tue Sep 06 2011, 20:26

i quit

goodbye
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Post  greencat Tue Sep 06 2011, 20:31

Pete, tell you what, on the next ToL we'll swap. You can lead and I'll be the tail ender. Deal?

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Post  robertcains Tue Sep 06 2011, 20:32

mechy69 wrote:i quit

goodbye

Nooooooooo, Come back! We all love you xxx pmsl
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Post  greencat Tue Sep 06 2011, 20:37

Oh, that's going a bit far Nick!

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Post  mechy69 Tue Sep 06 2011, 20:56

ive quit
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Post  YZFJohn Tue Sep 06 2011, 21:11

The weather was nice. Cool
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Post  Guest Tue Sep 06 2011, 21:14

Manor69 wrote:The weather was nice. Cool

Not on the way back home it wasn't ! wall
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