Insurance help

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Insurance help

Post  dudeofrude on Fri Feb 20 2015, 19:36

Hi just looking for some help with insuuring a rider without a license.

Basically my dad is thinking about doing his test, thing is he is getting on a bit and is set in his ways so the odds of him doing lessons and listening to a young un etc are slim. he rode bikes all his youth back in the days when you could get away with not having a license so naturally he can already ride a bike But he hasnt done all the jumping through hoops crap you have to do to pass mod 1.
So looking into it passing your test can be fairly simple and cheap if you do it on your own bike. Mod 1 is like 15quid or something silly and mod 2 is 70 odd.
So im thinking he can buy a bike to do the tests on and i can insure it for him so i can get it to and from the test centre the problem lies in getting him insured on it to use during the tests?
Does anyone know of a way around this as when ive looked it up nobody is willing to insure someone on a 600cc without a full bike license (rightly so)
is there not a specialist 1 day cover for tests? Even if its just for the mod 1 then pay local cowboys to out him through mod 2?
any help would be great
cheers
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Re: Insurance help

Post  Snowcat on Fri Feb 20 2015, 20:40

The short and simple answer is no. The only way he could do that would be to do his CBT then buy and insure a 125cc for using on his tests, only drawback is he'll be on a restricted license for 2 yrs or whatever the current law is before he can take additional tests to ride a bigger machine.

Whilst technically the mod1 part of the test is off road on private land so no requirement for insurance no test centre will allow that. The mod 2 requirement would need him to be fully insured at least 3rd party only which as you rightly say no insurance company will touch with a barge pole, the only way to achieve it is through a training company, lessons etc. No training company will put them in for a test without ensuring they are competent to pass the test as it buggers up their pass averages if they just throw people at tests, plus these centre are in it to make money so even if Rossi turned up they'd still want to extract a few quid from him in lesson time.

Plus as competent as he may think he is as a rider, chances are he's picked up a LOT of bad habits which don't fly on today's roads and need ironing out. I took my test in my late 30s having ridden yrs ago on various bikes with/without a license and when I got into the training thinking I knew everything it turned out I knew nothing, had a lot learn and actually needed more training than the none riding buddy I learned with.

It's always best to get a professional opinion as you tend to find in most situations you don't know as much as you think. With something as lethal as a motorbike you never stop learning.

Just my two penneth but I hope it helps and good luck to you pop in whatever he decides.


Last edited by Snowcat on Fri Feb 20 2015, 20:44; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Damn autocorrect!!)
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Re: Insurance help

Post  dudeofrude on Sat Feb 21 2015, 00:45

Thanks for the reply snowcat. i was afraid that was going to be the case. It just winds us up how it is a money making scheme and not there to genuinely help people pass. Like you said there is no need to have insurance to ride a bike on a closed course. They say in the rules that you can use your own bike then make it impossible to actually do it. And im sure they are in cahoots with the riding schools to make more money for each other.
I mean we only have 1 motorbike training school close by and it charges £36 an hour for lessons on a 650cc (£8 an hour more than its charges for 125cc lessons???), £115 for mod 2 and £150 for mod 2. The mod 1 charge does include a compulsory days training but still for that price you could do it 7 times on your own bike. And thats if you pass first time... i failed first one so my mod 1 cost me £230 in total but there was a girl there with me that had to take it 5 times! 575 quid to pass a £15 test!!!
In total including CBT, theory,10 lessons and 3 tests my license cost me over £900.

with regards to the 125 thing unfortunately with new licensing laws if you pass on a 125cc then you only get a license for a 125cc and thats for life or until you take a test on a bigger bike.

As for the bad habits stuff etc he builds and rides motorbike style trikes so he still has most of the Skills he just needs to learn all the silly mirror checks and head movements you have to do, plus he lives in the middle of nowhere so was gonna ride about the quiet roads and practice for a few weeks providing he could get insurance of some sorts but doeant look like thats gonna happen :(
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Re: Insurance help

Post  Snowcat on Sat Feb 21 2015, 10:29

It's unfortunate but there's little that can be done. The place where I did were really fair to be honest, they did an assessment lesson to gauge approximately what the thing was going to cost before you started, their direct access course was £395 which was for all training and the fees etc thrown in, but for this they guaranteed the pass, I.e if you failed mod 1 or 2 they would stump up the cost of any additional training plus the retest fees. SO in this respect they had to be certain you were ready to take the test.

What they wouldn't do though is take your money for the DAS course until they were satisfied you were ready, so it was 125 assessment lessons up until they deemed you fit. As I said I thought I was a riding God compared to my mate who actually failed his CBT!! I know how do you fail that?? Anyway we started together and imagine my shock when he was promoted to the 600cc and the DAS first... He even fell off twice on the 125 on manoeuvres!! I had to have an additional 2 lessons because they felt I wasn't ready and in hindsight I agree, I had picked up a lot of bad habits they needed to beat out of me where as my mate was a blank canvas. He went on to fail his mod 1 where I passed both 1st time so perhaps they were right all along, we'll never know for sure but I was happy with the outcome and having a Thundercat at home ready to jump on to was my motivation.

I suppose my point is whatever level of experience you think you have, it's always better to get a fresh pair of eyes on it if only to tick the box. Those silly mirror checks and head movements have saved my life on more than one occasion and I don't think you can put a price on the little things.

Like I said I'm still training, every time I go out I learn something, plus I've done the bikesafe course, a performance plus course in a track and am looking to do Ron Haslam day & IAMs, all in an attempt to be as good (and safe) as I possibly can be on my bike, there's no alternative to saddle time and experience but never be afraid to stop learning, when you think you know everything that's normally the time you're at your most vulnerable!!

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Re: Insurance help

Post  Wooster on Sat Feb 21 2015, 12:29

Regarding it as a money making scheme is a bit harsh on them.

It might be a closed course, but there will likely be other riders and equipment present, so they're highly unlikely to allow people to run around it without any cover.
It may also be illegal for them to do so (given they have a responsibility to protect their property and clients).

I know one instructor who had to shut his school down when the new tests were introduced, due to the high cost of conforming to them.
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Re: Insurance help

Post  FatCat on Sat Feb 21 2015, 12:45

Yep - no insurance I'm afraid as to ride a 600cc bike without a full A licence you need to be accompanied by a DSA approved instructor. 

It's not like a car where you can drive with a provisional while accompanied by someone with a full licence. 

It does make it potentially quite expensive as you can't practice on your own. However - a lot of the stuff your Dad may be bad at (don't shoot I said may Smile ), could perhaps be practised on a 125 with a CBT. If he's ridden before it's probably not the bike control he lacks but the observation habits that are essential to get through a test.

You can practice those as much on a 125 (to get into the good habbits) as you can on a 600.
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Re: Insurance help

Post  dudeofrude on Sat Feb 21 2015, 14:30

Yeah guys i know what your all saying and i agree hence why i went and did it the proper way but was just trying to see if i could help him through his a bit easier. Like i said he more or less rides a 1000cc bike now, albeit with 1 extra wheel (which i give him no end of grief about haha) so he can do thr observation side of things. He just need to practice the silly slalom, figure 8 stuff really as he won't be used to the balance anymore. Hes going to do his cbt in a few weeks anyway so hopefully he'll be able to swallow his pride a bit and listen then he could just fly through his tests but like they say about old dogs and new tricks lol

with regards to maoney making comment i only say that from my personal experience, i shouldnt really tar them all with the same brush.
its becuase my local one charges 115 to take a mod 1 with includes a days training at the site beforehand. Well i failed first time and was told that as id already done the training then i could pay 50 to just take the test again (fair enough) but then i was told that there are limited test spaces available and that priority would be given to people paying for the full thing.
we dont have a mod1 centre in our town we have to travel to either Scunthorpe or lincoln which is about 30 miles away. Because of this the school only gets a few test spaces each week (around 6-10 i believe). I then waited 2months without getting a space, so in the end i had to fork out the extra 65 quid to do the training again and they got me in the next week.
So basically they make an extra 65quid out of everyone that fails. I not implying they do that but certainly wouldnt be too much of a stretch to think theyd let people take it that arent ready just to make a bit of extra cash. After all its mod 2 passes that make you stats look good?
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Re: Insurance help

Post  Wooster on Sat Feb 21 2015, 14:54

It's probably not beyond the bounds of reason, but I suppose it's down to their professional integrity at the end of the day.

I do know that word gets around if a school has shitty instructors or tries to scam people though, since the instructors themselves move around and work for different places.
(I don't think there's a great living to be made out of it, since the work can be pretty seasonal.)

My brother in law did his tests last year and he had a bit of a personality clash with a couple of instructors, so that's something else to look out for.
They might be brilliant at what they do, but you just don't get along together, so it might be worth having a chat with who you'll be learning under before slapping down money for a block booking.
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