Good price for the second gear fix?

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Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  fr3tless on Wed Feb 05 2014, 20:04

Hi all, I've spent the last few weeks trying to price everything up for the second gear repair... :(

After speaking to a garage yesterday, i'm considering getting them to do it, they've quoted me £300 all in (including oil and filter change :O). Obviously it is just a quote, and hopefully he won't find there's anything else wrong with the bike...

What do you guys think to £300? I think it seems very reasonable, especially as the Yamaha dealer in Leicester quoted around £1000?!

Thanks,
Warren
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  Cheshirecat on Wed Feb 05 2014, 22:58

To be fair I'm not 100% sure what's involved but I would of thought its quite labour intensive, so £300 don't sound bad at all mate.
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  SteveCat on Wed Feb 05 2014, 23:53

Sorry to pour water on oil here, I'd consider that to be too cheap.

Taking the engine out is not a trivial job, even for the pro's. I doubt any of the quote included parts, gaskets alone are pretty pricey let alone gears.
I would suspect that for £300 they would do a service and hope the oil change and chain adjustment would sort out the problem. In many cases it would. Mechanical sympathy for an older bike goes a long way too, when selecting second gear allow the gear lever to go full travel and then release it and press upwards again till it clicks in place before letting out the clutch.
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  HEHORE on Thu Feb 06 2014, 04:01

It cost me £200 just to change 8 exhaust studs, £140 for fork seals and £120 for new chain and sprockets fitted, so 300 seems a bit cheap to me aswel, considering they have to take the engine out and apart

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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  mrfrance on Thu Feb 06 2014, 08:55

As others have said, I would be concerned also. I would speak to the garage and ask them what they intend to do. But firstly I would check the condition of your chain and sprockets and whether the chain is too loose and whether the bike is in need of an oil change. These all affect the gearing on the bike.

Do you know which oil is in the bike now? Just a half decent 10W40 part-synth will do the cat.

When you say 2nd gear problem, what exactly is happening? Sorry if you've already explained this another post, but unless the bike is dropping into 2nd from another gear whilst you're riding, changing/fixing gears would be the last thing I'd be looking at.
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  fr3tless on Thu Feb 06 2014, 11:20

Thanks everyone!
The guy walked me through what he's going to do and has said it'll cost me £80 to remove the engine and strip it, the gaskets I need (he's said I only need two?) cost £16 each and the gear is roughly £70.

I think the reasoning for him being so cheap, is that he's only a small independent company in Loughborough and works alone, offering a mobile service so overhead are very small.

as for the problem I'm having, the only gear affected is second, when I accelerate, it kind of jumps out and makes a 'crunching' noise. I've topped up my oil with castrol 10w40 (the middle priced one from halfords) and my chain and sprockets seem fine .
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  HEHORE on Thu Feb 06 2014, 15:06

My trusted garage said to replace the gear it's about £600 all in including parts and seals, but if it has damaged a rod (not sure what one but it normally gets bent when second gear goes) that's another £160 to buy and he recommends buy a second had engine as it's more cost effective

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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  Cheshirecat on Thu Feb 06 2014, 22:26

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Thanks everyone!
The guy walked me through what he's going to do and has said it'll cost me £80 to remove the engine and strip it, the gaskets I need (he's said I only need two?) cost £16 each and the gear is roughly £70.

I think the reasoning for him being so cheap, is that he's only a small independent company in Loughborough and works alone, offering a mobile service so overhead are very small.

as for the problem I'm having, the only gear affected is second, when I accelerate, it kind of jumps out and makes a 'crunching' noise. I've topped up my oil with castrol 10w40 (the middle priced one from halfords) and my chain and sprockets seem fine .

How much play have you got in your chain? have you taken the front sprocket cover off and checked the front sprocket is tight? Also do you have any tight spots in your chain, does it pop out of second gear under hard acceleration or just randomly?
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  fr3tless on Sat Feb 08 2014, 18:58

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Thanks everyone!
The guy walked me through what he's going to do and has said it'll cost me £80 to remove the engine and strip it, the gaskets I need (he's said I only need two?) cost £16 each and the gear is roughly £70.

I think the reasoning for him being so cheap, is that he's only a small independent company in Loughborough and works alone, offering a mobile service so overhead are very small.

as for the problem I'm having, the only gear affected is second, when I accelerate, it kind of jumps out and makes a 'crunching' noise. I've topped up my oil with castrol 10w40 (the middle priced one from halfords) and my chain and sprockets seem fine .

How much play have you got in your chain? have you taken the front sprocket cover off and checked the front sprocket is tight? Also do you have any tight spots in your chain, does it pop out of second gear under hard acceleration or just randomly?


There's about 2" of play in the chain, and I have noticed small tight spots. As for the sprocket, I haven't checked it yet as I hadn't considered the chain/sprockets to be the problem (mainly due to all my other gears being fine).

It's under harder acceleration that it does it, my friend has a drift HD, I'll see if I can borrow it and I'll post the horrific noise it makes Smile
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  fr3tless on Sun Feb 09 2014, 16:34

Right, here's a video of the bike... it's only second gear it happens in [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  Radar on Sun Feb 09 2014, 17:00

Sounds too cheap to be honest
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  SteveCat on Mon Feb 10 2014, 09:21

This isn't a cure, but a test. Change to second and hold the gear lever up, you may feel that it wants to come out when you power it on - what could happen is you feel it click in place. Doe sit do that or still manage to pop out?
Is it doing this every time?
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  Rosco on Mon Feb 10 2014, 09:45

Posting the video was a great idea.

Can I suggest you PM Stretchie and ask him (Dan) to compare to his experience.

He's on the ball technically and off the wall mentally Wink love home to bits Smile
He definitely experienced and went through stripping and fixing it himself (on the living room floor I remember)

Cheers
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  terry lees on Tue Feb 11 2014, 14:02

Hi all, been watching this thread with some interest, and so thought I would throw in my twopenny's worth. A few years ago returning from a trip to Scotland, one of my mates (chicken tim) who many of you know, lost 5th gear, another 100 miles down the road 4th gear also disappeared. The Yamaha FJR 1300 club wanted £1500 to do the job and weren't that bothered anyway as it was such a big job. After asking about he got a local man, a friend of Gordon's (a few of you know him) to do the job for £650 inc. all parts. He did a first class job, and Tim did at least another 20,000 miles on the bike before trading it for a BMW
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  fr3tless on Wed Feb 12 2014, 09:32

I'm hoping to get out on the bike on Sunday provided it's not snowing, so i'll have a go at the test you suggested then SteveCat.

I tried messaging Stretchie a few weeks ago but didn't get a response, do you know if he's still active?

Thanks Terry! This bloke I've had a quote from seems to be genuine, he's a small 'one man' business that i found through friends on facebook... People in the Leicestershire/Warwickshire area may have heard of them, RevSolutions. If I can't find anything else that could be causing the problem by next month, i'm planning on calling him again to get a better understanding of what he's going to do.

Thanks for all the response everyone, it's definitely helped! Smile

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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  fr3tless on Thu Feb 13 2014, 18:17

I did as you suggested SteveCat, but holding the gear lever up did nothing, it didn't feel like there was anything pushing back when it 'crunched' which I thought was a bit odd?
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  SteveCat on Thu Feb 13 2014, 20:48

Yeah, not what I was expecting/hoping sorry that didn't work, could have been a short term workaround.
I'll email Stretchie_ for you and see if he can shed some light for you. As you would have read he had what sounds like a similar problem. His first repair was done by a garage, but it wasn't done properly and the problem came back so he stripped it himself.
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  stretchie_ on Fri Feb 14 2014, 10:57

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, alright bouys, sorry I've not been around, Steve e-mailed me and told me to chip in.

I would say £300 is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too cheap considering what is involved, and as suggested above I would ask the garage what it is they plan to do, but to be honest if they quoted that to fix this then I'd steer clear anyway, unless they misunderstood and are thinking of a different job.

A pattern full engine gasket set (so not Yamaha) alone is £130 from Wemoto, then there is the time taken to remove and refit the engine alone let alone to strip it, inspect, replace what ever is required (almost certainly forks and quite possibly gear pinions - DO NOT USE SECOND HAND PARTS) will take it way over £300, then there is the service, so new oil, oil and air filters, coolant and spark plugs.

I think they have either misunderstood what you want or are trying to get you in there and then plan to give you the call "It's more complex than we thought, I'm afraid it's gonna cost you", what are you going to say to a garage when they already have the engine in bits? It's not like you can come down and ride it home.

Let us know matey
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  mrfrance on Fri Feb 14 2014, 11:05

Sound advice stretch...

As Stevecat said, you might actually be better off looking around for another lump instead [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] less than £300, if you've got someone that can help you, you can swap it out yourself!

Good luck
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  stretchie_ on Fri Feb 14 2014, 11:40

Some other options:

1 - Just carry on using it
   You ride like this:
Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssttttttttttttttttttttttt - 2nd - Thhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd - Fooouuuurrrrrtttttttttttttttthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

   HOWEVER, if you do this you'll only end up having to adjust after a few 1,000 miles to:
Fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssssttttttttttttttttttttttt - 2nd - 3rd - Fooouuuurrrrrtttttttttttttttthhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

2 - Get another bike and use the cat for Moto Gymkhana but only use first gear, you will need to change the gearing to suit this abuse use of the first gear

3 - I'll give you £50 for the bike Smile
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  fr3tless on Fri Feb 14 2014, 12:56

Thanks for the advice!
that's how I'm currently riding it, it's not liking it too much mind... tongue

I'd love to just buy another and get rid of this, but unfortunately being a student, I'm pretty broke :(

After all the respones I think a new motor is going to be my plan of action I think, my only worry is the problem occurring again on a new one :S
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  mrfrance on Fri Feb 14 2014, 13:05

It shouldn't happen again, it is rare... your predecessor to the bike must have really abused the poor thing! Either that or it's by chance something wasn't quite right with the engine in the first place.

Take that from many riders on here who have put many miles on there bikes and never had any problems with gearing.
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  stretchie_ on Fri Feb 14 2014, 13:32

"I think a new motor is going to be my plan of action I think, my only worry is the problem occurring again on a new one" -   That's just the gamble matey, there are plenty of cats on high mileage without an issue.

Here's your options as I see them, I personally recommend option 2 or 5 as they both (SHOULD) involve your friends and beers/ciders/larger/other*

*circle appropriate option

Option No 1
Description Take to a garage, get it properly fixed
Pros Done quickly and you should get a limited warrantee for the work and the parts
Cons Massive cost, and any quoted price may jump up

Option No 2
Description Buy a used engine and swap it yourself
Pros Quickest and cheapest fix
Cons Takes longer than a garage doing it and work not gauranteed
There is no guarantee it won't happen to that engine

Option No 3
Description Buy a used engine and get a garage to swap it
Pros Quick
Cons May still be quite expensive
There is no guarantee it won't happen to that engine

Option No 4
Description Buy a running cat, an you can either swap the engines or just use the new bike, the remaining bike can then be sold as spares or repairs or broken and sold to get a lot of the money back
Pros Would probably only cost a little more than getting a garage to fix the original engine
A lot of Money back from selling / parting out the spare bike bits, possibly even enough to cover the whole expense
Cons A lot of time and effort and money upfront

Option No 5
Description Fix the engine yourself
Pros You learn, you end up with more tools and increased confidence in takling jobs yourself
Save money in the long run as you will do more work on your own bike reducing garage costs
Cons Still expensive after gasket sets and aditional required tools but much cheaper than a garage


Oh, and just for the old timers amongst us, [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]  Ahhh, the mammories memories
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Re: Good price for the second gear fix?

Post  Rosco on Fri Feb 14 2014, 14:29

Good old Theo Smile

Great advice Stretchmeister.
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